Royce posted a comment · Jun 28, 2016
Dr. Brown you once again did an outstanding job of addressing Isaac's points. I just wish you would bring to point the specific Scriptures which refute his many suppositions and requests. For example, why would he desire or even expect Christians to disobey the clear instructions in Scripture to put the unrepentant sexually immoral out (1st Cor. 5:1-8), not to have fellowship with such (1st Cor. 5:11 & 2nd Cor. (or 2 Cor. if you prefer. LOL) 6:14-15) and that we are not all "children of God" (Eph. 2). Then there are the Scriptures that tell us to mark and avoid the false teachers. That said, I have long said there will be NO appeasing the LGBTQABCXYZ Community because there is a deep hole inside their soul that no matter how many "victories" they think they win, no matter how much "tolerance" they get, no matter how much they are "accepted", it will never be enough for them. And they will never stop until they get "Approval". And that is something they will NEVER get. They are in SIN and there is NOTHING that will ever change that. So, they will continue to fight in an attempt to assuage the guilt they will NEVER rid themselves of. And so, now we see that it is an offence to even "hate the sin" because it's "hurtful". Once again, the apostates have no Biblical substantiation to stand on so they resort to the only thing they can to win others to their POV and that is, "You hurt my feelings and that's so hateful and unloving." Which reminds me, you erred in your statement "no matter how loving and committed they may be". There is NO "love" in a Same-Sex sexual relationship. It may well be one of the most hateful things one can do to another. Deceiving and misleading one to believe that are being "loved" when in fact they are aiding and abetting their Eternal Punishment in the Lake of Fire. (Rev. 21:8) I do hope you'll correct the record there and in the future.
FunnyOldFundie posted a comment · Jun 24, 2016
You caught the main sticking point. When "the LGBT+ community" say they “...are not bullying you into abandoning your religious values. We’re simply asking for camaraderie.” They don't seem to realize that they are, in fact, asking (and, through changes in cultural practices and even laws, bullying) us to abandon a religious value: as you write, "we are 100 percent sure that the Bible condemns homosexual practice." It's not just a personal feeling or the result of hate.<!-break--> As a culture, we all need to understand we can think people are wrong about something without believing we should hate them, harm them, or restrict their true rights. Unfortunately, we've gotten to the point where what constitutes a "right" has become a major can of worms, but that goes beyond the focus of this letter. <p> I'd like to emphasize something which seems to be one of the underlying problems in perception that gives strength to the movement to reject heterosexual marriage as the only proper venue for sexual intercourse. It is found in this passage: "...when you discovered you had bisexual attractions, you determined to hate your sin, adding, “But when your ‘sin’ is loving, [you're] left with no option but to hate your entire self.” " <p> The first thing that should be said and established in our society is that any kind of sexual attraction is NOT to be identfied with loving! They are two completely separate things! The failure to understand this could explain why some people think the Bible suggests there were homosexual or bi-sexual relationships between David and Nathan, and even between Christ and the Apostle John. Similarly, there can be loving physical contact between men without implying homosexuality or sexual attraction. <p> In the same vein, I'd like to comment on this question: "...since you identify as bisexual, what stops you from affirming your heterosexual attraction as God-given and your homosexual attraction as fleshly, whatever its cause or root?" <p> I would like to strongly emphasize that (as you bring out later) even heterosexual attraction is not a form of love (not counting the perverted Greek concept of Eros), and can be perverted from the ideal found in Adam and Eve when first created. Indeed, I believe this was seen as soon as they rejected God's direction and suddenly found their nakedness had become a problem. <p> As you point out, "...all of us are called to deny ourselves...all believers acknowledge such desires..." It seems that many, perhaps most people, today do not understand that just because a feeling or urge comes naturally, does not mean it is something that we should indulge, let alone identify with. Our nature is fallen, sinful. It should be obvious, if you consider that we all have moments when anger or some other emotion causes us to desire or wonder about doing something that would be clearly harmful to another person. <p> Frankly, I blame "the Church" -- over 100 years ago, churches began abandoning belief that the Bible was the simple, clear, Word of God from the very beginning, and conceded to "Science" the ability to tell us the true history of the world. First creation was turned into a myth about evolution, and from there more and more of the message of the Bible has been relegated to stories by ancient people in a world that God intended to constantly change. This new view of sexuality is regarded by many as just the latest change in God's ever-evolving plan. Of course, with a view like this, there's no telling what might be considered within the will of God in the future, but it is part of fallen human nature to ignore the dangers of the future. It was predicted years ago that the sexual revolution would lead to the end of separate restrooms for males and females, but that was laughed at as extreme paranoia, or a wild scare tactic. Well, here we are, and what will tomorrow bring? <p> Finally, a related problem is a skewed view of Christianity and damnation vs salvation. The fellow you replied to wrote, “As a diligent Christian boy, I knew God was going to kill me — an eternal life in hell...” This suggests he was and is holding some common misperceptions. One is that Christian salvation is a matter of works - if we are "diligent" then God will let us into heaven. The Bible clearly teaches that salvation is a gift from God we accept by faith. Likewise, it is commonly believed that Christians are motivated to do good and love others out of fear - this threat of hell. Another old lie of Satan is that we would be fine, but God is waiting to pounce on something we do and use it as an excuse to kill us and send us to hell. Related to this is the wrong idea that God hates sinners and even (insert any group an unbeliever might identify or sympathize with), and Christians hate them, too. The true, Biblical situation is that we are all sinners and bound for Hell, and God has provided a way to be with Him in heaven, even though none of us deserve it (John 3:16). <p> A true understanding of what the Bible teaches, and general acceptance of Biblical history, would resolve these problems. As long as so many churches fail to accept and teach that the Bible is clear and plain from the very beginning, things will continue to get worse and worse, as Bible itself has foretold: 2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. <p> See also Romans chapter 1.
[email protected] posted a comment · Jun 24, 2016
An Open Letter to Dr. Brown: Rather than speaking to Issac, why are you not writing open letters to the people in the Christian community who have called on the government to murder gay people? Why are you not writing open letters on those in the Christian community who have stated that they are happy about the murders in Orlando and their only regret is that more were not killed? Why are you not writing open letters calling out the hatred and vitriol of groups like the AFA and the FRC when they publicly make statements that gays are pedophiles, out to destroy marriage, out to destroy the family, and out to destroy America? Why are you not denouncing the pastor who suggested that gays be rounded up and put behind electric fences? Why are you not denouncing Christian leaders who pronounce that it is gay people who are bringing the wrath of God upon America? Do you not see how these types of comments provide fodder for those who are simply looking for a reason to justify acting on their hatred? Do you not see how making those types of statements makes them complicit in the act? Do you not see the difference between simply stating that you view something as a sin and saying that a group of people are responsible for the destruction of a society or a nation or the family or society? No more broken hearts. No more prayers for peace and comfort. No more pseudo-solidarity. If you do not advocate for full equality for LGBTQ people, you are part of the problem. “But wait,” you say, “I never advocated for murder or violence. I would never, ever support that.” Dear weeping Christians, it is long past time for you to connect these dots. You cannot, in one moment, marginalize, demonize and cast as “other” a particular group, and then in the next moment, lament the fact that that group is being targeted for a hate crime. If you advocate for inequality—whether because of your religious beliefs, your cultural beliefs, your political aspirations, etc.—you are helping to create a culture that made LGBT people an easy mark for a lunatic homophobe with an assault weapon, regardless of whether his homophobia was internalized or externalized. By failing to speak up against discrimination and hate, you have made the world unsafe for LGBT people, fueling their own self-loathing and inciting homophobic rage in others. You are part of the reason hate crimes against LGBT people were up in 2015. You are part of the reason LGBT teens are the daily targets of harassment, bullying and violence in schools. And you are part of the reason they too often choose suicide over the pain of living as a human target. You. Are. Part. Of. The. Problem. If you really want to stand in solidarity with the victims, their families and our community a whole, stop vilifying our community by calling us pedophiles and predators. Stop telling people to "hate" the sin. Stop warning straight people we are out to destroy their marriages, their families and the American way of life. Actively denounce those, by name, who do make such claims. If you want to pay your respects for the LGBT people who were slaughtered in Orlando, first try tweeting these words: “This was a hate crime against LGBT people.” Then start voting for equal rights for LGBT people - not actively advocating against them, which says these individuals are not as worthy of others - their lives to not matter as much as others - they are not as deserving as others - they are more expendable. Ask your supporters to respect all people equally, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity. Actively and vocally discourage anti-LGBT bullying, harassment and violence. Actively denounce those, by name, who encourage such things. State unequivocally that #BlackLivesMatter. If you really want to make sure this doesn’t happen again, you must finally recognize the link between a cultural climate that demonizes LGBT people and the attacks against them that inevitably follow. If you can’t do that, please, have some respect for the fallen and say nothing at all.